2.7 My Name is Lou

Feb 19

With Lou Wall

In this episode Bronte Charlotte chats to Lou Wall, multi-award winning comedian, composer and writer. They are the winner of Melbourne Fringe’s Best Cabaret 2020, best Emerging Ensemble 2019, and Best Emerging Artist 2018, and have several nominations to their name. We chat about the power of comedy and Lou’s experience transitioning stage to screen since the Coronavirus impacted theatres and the creative arts. We talk a lot about mental health and the pressure of being funny, continuing to fuel yourself with those things that bring you joy while also taking time to distance yourself from the work. We chat about actively making the work that you want to see, creating roles for yourself, and working with creative partners.

During this episode we discuss:

[02:56] Our collective wellbeing at times of crisis, Lou discovering their comedic talent at a workshop in year 12, having the confidence to create their own shows and not overthinking things.
[09:13] Lousical the Musical, adapting to the screen for Melbourne Fringe Festival during Melbourne’s Stage 4 lockdown, and the liberation from the confinements of stage.
[12:44] Working and devising with Jean Tong and why the two of them are such incredible creative partners.
[14:08] Lou’s two goals in every piece they make, keeping a little of yourself for yourself, allowing mental health content to be real and normal and accessible, not over exaggerated and dramatic.
[17:57] Using comedy as a tool to connect, deal with tragedy, and release stress and pain.
[19:35] Making the work that you want to see, funding your own shows, how social media can impact your perceptions of your success, ‘social media depression’ and becoming addicted to the screen.
[26:19] Being limitless in what you create, the excitement of collaborating with other artists, and the freedom of making an online show without having to perform every night.
[30:01] Perfectionism and how it manifests differently for different people, still writing a show right up until walking on stage, setting goals to challenge your creative habits.
[34:23] Dealing with the level of personal criticism you receive on the spot as a performer, feeling low being completely okay, and recognising that it’s not healthy to be constantly evaluated.
[36:21] Distancing yourself from the work, fueling yourself with stuff that makes you excited, finding what you are truly interested in and not allowing others to make that decision for you.
[38:54] Being able to recognise and appreciate your personal efforts and successes, working with Liam McGuire on his show Wrath, reflecting on how you run spaces and experiencing other rooms.

Lou Wall.wav: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Lou Wall.wav: this wav audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Bronte:
Welcome back to the Chats with Creatives Podcast! Today we are chatting with Comedy Superstar Lou Wall in this week's episode My Name is Lou. Lou is a multi award winning comedian, writer and composer, so hold steady for a moment people while I just list Lou's incredible achievements. They graduated from the VCA in 2016 with their first fully devised black comedy Cabaret A Dingo Ate My Baby. It's Not Me It's Lou won the Melbourne Cabaret Festival's Emerging Cabaret Artist Award. In the same year, Lou received the Best Emerging Artist Award for Lou Wall's Drag Race she also received a Green Room Award nomination for Romeo is Not The Only Fruit which she created with her beautiful partner, Jean Tong. In 2019, they won Melbourne Fringe's Best Performance Ensemble Award for Oh No, Satan Stole my Pineal Gland. And most recently, Lou was the musical director for An Evening with Zoe Coombs Marr at Adelaide Cabaret Festival. Hello, talented human. Lou is such a fun guest. It is an absolute blast to have her here today. We delve into our experiences with mental health, the two things that Lou aims for in every piece that she makes, and working alongside their partner, Jean Tong for nearly every project that they've created. I can't wait to get Jean in here and have a big old chat about their writing, because my golly these are talented humans. What a power couple. If you're a budding writer slash creator this episode is for you and I am so keen to hear what you think. Before we begin, I would like to acknowledge that I'm recording these podcasts on Stolen Land, The Land of the Wurundjeri People of the Kulin Nation. If you're an indigenous listener, a First Nations listener, thank you so much for being here. I feel so privileged to be living on this land today. Let's jump into it, friends. Hey, Lou.

Lou:
It begins.

Bronte:
I'm so excited to have you here. I feel like there are many, many, many a thing to talk about. But I'm also wanting to like, pre-empt this with I've had a very low mental health week, so I'm...

Lou:
Same! I just had the most shocker of a morning. It's a vibe.

Bronte:
Are you okay?

Lou:
Yeah, I'm fine. Also, January is always shit, especially like the later half of January because it's just like... The year is slipping away. I have so many resolutions that I've already like bailed on. I just like... It's not a vibe for me ever.

Bronte:
Yeah. I think there's something in the air. I caught up with a friend this morning. We had a coffee and she was like, "just had a rough one." And I was like, "yeah, I'm having a rough one." And everyone's just kind of a bit like...

Lou:
It's very much like a collective rough one at the moment.

Bronte:
Yeah. Much like last year, again, like so much energy at the moment is just collective. It's like everyone's experiencing the same thing, but also it's so different for everyone. Okay! Lou Wall. Here you are.

Lou:
Here I am. Signed, sealed, delivered.

Bronte:
It's been a rough week, but what's been the best part of your week? Have you had something really nice that's happened that's been like nice and uplifting?

Lou:
Oh yeah. I just made this pact to myself this week that I would run or walk every morning. It doesn't matter how far, but I would just like get out as the first thing I did. And it's been like, I mean shockingly really nice. I'm like "wow, walking is nice, selfcare is nice." Which is like... Yeah I'm just like a troll usually. So I'm like, just like experiencing the great outdoors. And there's like heaps of elderly women who do Tai Chi in the park right near me. And it's like so wholesome. Like a hundred of them. It's crazy.

Bronte:
Oh my gosh.

Lou:
I know. And so I just like sit there and chill and watch them. It's like very, very vibey.

Bronte:
Do you know there are... Sorry to get all medical on you, but there are so many studies that say, getting outside first thing in the morning is like the best thing for your mental health. And just like the sunlight for your eyes, like if you don't wear sunglasses, that raises your dopamine or something like that. It's really good for you/

Lou:
100% The thing is, every morning I wake up, I say to myself, "this is a terrible idea. Don't do it. It will not help you. It's all just like, you know, people shit posting." But then every time I do it, I'm like, "oh, God damn. I feel the endorphins pulsating through me."

Bronte:
That's lovely. Where do you walk? Do you walk along like a path or like around the back streets?

Lou:
I live in the city, in Carlton. So I just try and like beeline to a park. But I live quite near Carlton Gardens.. the one with the REB. The Royal Exhibition Building and the museum.

Bronte:
Oh my god. I was like, "what?!" That is the Carlton Gardens.

Lou:
Yeah. So I just like beeline to them and just like cruise around there.

Bronte:
Man, I would just walk up and down Rathdowne Street and just like look at all the boujie 2 story terrace houses.

Lou:
They are stunning. But it's too lush for me, like I need somewhere where I can be like filthy and raggedy. and look like shit in the morning and not be judged.

Bronte:
It's like 11:00 a.m. and you're like "I only just fucking got up."

Lou:
Exactly, I don't want to be walking past like beautiful mums with their strollers. It's too much for me.

Bronte:
Lou, how did we meet?

Lou:
We met through VCA, you were 2 years below me. And I think I saw you... I can't remember which role you were in, but you were playing some kind of powerful woman in, like, a devise-ish piece. Was it like Greeks' or something?

Bronte:
Oh my god Greeks. Yeah Andromache. She's like, she was a powerhouse, but she loses her bubba.

Lou:
Like all the fucking women in Greek Theatre.

Bronte:
Literally, though, I think most of the female roles that I played at drama school lost children.

Lou:
Classic. That's like a staple of going to drama school, playing the traumatised woman. But yeah. And I was like, "this is not fair that you're in first year." It was just like so powerful.

Bronte:
Oh, that's very sweet of you. So you've trained as an actor at the VCA. You've also developed your own work, on your own and also collaborating with others. But where did your journey begin? Like where did it all start?

Lou:
I grew up in the country, in New South Wales.

Bronte:
Oh, I didn't know this.

Lou:
Out bush. In a little town called Cooma. And I didn't really see much like performance or theatre, kind of at all. I would say that I saw, like, Australia's Got Talent on the TV. I did like a lot of... I did all the things because it was like a very small town, like kind of everyone did everything. So I was very lucky in that regard. All the extracurriculars and stuff. And then when I was... I think when I was in year 12, these comics came down from Canberra to do like a comedy workshop. And for some reason, I was like 17... no I was 16 at the time. And I was like, "you know what? That's for me." And so I signed up. I went to the local library and we had this two hour workshop. And then we had to perform live on stage after, like, a two hour workshop. Like that was it. And it was me and these five other 50 year old men from my town. And it was at the theatre, which is like this old shed, beautiful little place. For some reason, I think it was because the audience was so stressed out that I would embarrass myself... Because I was just like this tiny girl and everyone was like... I mean, I wasn't tiny. I was very tall. Everyone was like, kind of more experienced than me. And my mum was so nervous. She was like, "Are you sure you want to do this? Like, is this the right thing?" And I was like, "Hell yeah." And then I did it and it was... It went really well. I think, like it definitely killed. I don't know how. I look back at my jokes, and they were so shit. And then from that moment I was like, "oh yeah, I could do this." And then I applied for all the drama schools.

Bronte:
That's so interesting. So you, like, came across it when you were 16 or 17 and then immediately got into drama school and not even having left drama school, you had created your first show.

Lou:
Yeah, I think the naivety works for me. Because I think about it now and it sounds insane.

Bronte:
It is insane.

Lou:
Like right now, at twenty four, I would never try Stand-Up. Ever. I'd be way too fearful and guarded and stuff. And so my parents were the bomb and they definitely instilled me with this like, "you can do anything!" kind of vibe. So I was like, "yeah you know what I fucking can do anything." So I think that definitely helped me. I think it was mainly just like sheer confidence and dumb decisions that got me to where I am. I think if I had thought about it, it wouldn't have happened.

Bronte:
I think there's something in that though. Because overthinking things is the thing that stops people from doing things. From acting on impulse. Wow. I think, I think I've just had my best acting lesson. Don't think.

Lou:
Yeah. Just go.

Bronte:
Lou Wall ladies and gentlemen.

Lou:
I think I always like dramatic and a bit much. I loved like being like the centre of attention.

Bronte:
And so what is it that led you to make shows that are just you. Because they're almost stand up. In a way. But they're more like...

Lou:
The Lou Wall Experience.

Bronte:
Yes. Literally. How many of them have your name in the title?

Lou:
I mean all of them. There's a place in all words for Lou. Like it's just, any time there's 'you' you just swap it out for 'Lou'.

Bronte:
So in all of your shows, in particular, your most recent one... Lousical, the Musical, which you fucking re-did for screen, which was incredible. You're super open about mental health, yeah?

Lou:
Actually I think that Lousical was kind of the first.

Bronte:
Truly?

Lou:
I think so. Yeah. I love like high entertainment and then a little stinger at the end.

Bronte:
And that's absolutely what you're amazing at. That hit me so hard... Because it was like during Melbourne's lockdown and we could see these Fringe shows that had been redone to be virtual. And yours was just incredible. It was like the most appropriate thing talking about procrastination. But then also the intelligent ways that you would bring in mental health and your own experiences of mental health and how you kind of experimented with the form was just fucking amazing. I'm wondering, have you ever done anything like that before or was that the first time and you were fully experimenting?

Lou:
That's the first time that I've ever been on screen, edited and filmed by me. I think, since I was 12, I've like... In the back of my mind, I've been like "I am a Youtuber. And I have always thought that I...

Bronte:
True! That's the age that we grew up in, of Youtubers... For sure.

Lou:
And that's who I idolised.

Bronte:
So many of them was so young.

Lou:
Like our age growing up. Yeah. So I think I've always like had this instinct that that is what I want to do. But I've always been way too scared to put anything on the Internet. So with this, it was like this opportunity to make something that was like only available for one hour, for four nights. And that's it. And so, yeah, it was super enjoyable. I made this film in year 12 using this camera that I hired from the library and my shitty like government computer. But I think other than that, yeah, it was my first foray into it. But I kind of realised when I was doing it, I was like, "oh, I really like this. Like probably more than performing, like, I love editing." For me it was like this liberation of... I think for me stage has some confinements in that, you know, everything you have to do kind of has to be real time. And you can bring in other multimedia things to like facilitate your performance. But on screen it's like, you can do whatever the fuck you want. So, yeah, that was like super liberating.

Bronte:
Do you think it's something that you'll continue to do? To explore that...

Lou:
Yeah, I definitely want to. I think it will be fun. Is this weird thing where it's like... It's not really a short film and it's not really theatre. It's like this... And it's not really YouTube because it's like long form. But yeah, I kind of am just like, "oh yeah, I'm going to start my own genre, baby."

Bronte:
That's it, though. And it's almost like this is the time to be doing it because of everything that happened last year with the coronavirus and virtual things being the only way to access different mediums. Particularly in the arts, I saw a few different online shows and they were all fascinating in the way that they utilised the camera and angles and some of them had to be done over zoom, which would have been so hard.

Lou:
Oh, my God, I hate Zoom for just like meetings. Let alone making a show.

Bronte:
Oh my God, I can't even grasp just how hard it would have been, but also how well everyone did. And then you just threw your show in the mix and it was literally like you were born to do this. It was so good. And if people didn't see it, I feel sorry for you because it was so good and so funny and it was just so good. And I love so much that there were moments you had Jean in it, Jean Tong. You've worked with Jean a few times, haven't you? You've devised together a fair bit.

Lou:
Yeah. They're my partner in life and crime. So we kind of just do everything together. I always say, I'm like, "oh, it's going to be real fucked if we break up." I think we'll be collaboratives forever.

Bronte:
So you have a similar aesthetic? Do you feel? Like creatively?

Lou:
I think we both like the same humour and then we come at things very differently. Jean has this like, phenomenal mind for structure and is a brilliant writer. And I can't write for shit, but like, I love a vision. So we're very... I think a lot of people are like "oh is it really nice collaborating with Jean?" And I'm like, "no, it's awful, but that's why it's good." We jus fight and we just like butt heads all the time. That's probably like both of our natures, like we're both very headstrong. But I think when we butt heads enough, like one idea prevails and that's usually got the magic in it. Because it's like, we've had to fight for it. So it's like, whatever comes out of the end.

Bronte:
So clearly you're very strong in your relationship and your love for each other is not able to be budged by these creative differences or discussions around art.

Lou:
Yeah, I think we're dumb lesbians. Like we're just so entwined in each other's lives that it just is like, "well, that's that."

Bronte:
Do you feel like sharing a bit about your mental health in Lousical the Musical was like a release, or do you feel like it was quite a difficult thing to do?

Lou:
Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think my main priority with any of the work I make is: entertainment and safety. So, like, if I'm making a show that addresses... For example, in Drag Race, we're addressing gender fluidity and queer rights. And it's like, the main thing I wanted to do is like be safe for the people who experience those issues. So I think in making Lousical, yeah, I was like, "all right, it's time. Like, I'm chronically ill and it's affecting all of my other work, so why not make a show about it." But I think that... It's autobiographical. But I still put on this, like, layer of, kind of dramatic indulgence that kind of covers it. So it's not like as close to home as people may feel it is. So it was a release in a way. But also I still feel very guarded and I still feel like... It's this funny thing because people often watch Lousical... And I think it's the show that most people have, I don't know, like deeply connected with. And people have reached out to me, which has been so lovely. But I still feel like they don't really know me. I'm just like... But I think that's really important, both for me and for the viewer because it's like... I don't want anything to be traumatic. I don't want it, I want it to be helpful, especially if it's about mental health. And so I just kind of tried to make something that I would want to watch and that I would be helped by. And I think for so many people, especially for me, when I see mental health stuff that works for me, it's stuff that's like... It's so cliche, but it's like "you're not alone. Look, this is exactly what I'm experiencing. You may have felt any number of these things and like that's just so fine."

Bronte:
I'm not surprised that people reached out to you because I have anxiety and I, like others who talked to you about it, I felt so held by you watching it because it was almost this comically light touch to your experience of anxiety. The comedy that you brought around it, and then like, as you said, this sting at the end, was very relatable, but also very easy to receive as someone with anxiety. So you created such a safe space by being like, "la di da! This is what I'm going through! But also this is what I'm going through. And that's okay. We can just joke about it. But this is real." It was a very... I don't know how to explain it. I'm really struggling for words. But I think it's just one of the most intelligent ways that I think anyone has ever kind of delved into mental health issues. I love it when it's normalised, essentially. Because for me it is my normal everyday experience. And when there's this big dramatic version of the mental health issue, I'm like, "yeah, that's it. But also, it's like..." You also have to still move through your day. And you also have to find a way to deal with it. And for you, I'm sure that due to your comedy and your comedy in shows, there's probably an amount of comedy that you use to deal with the experience. And so sharing that and just allowing it to be such a normal thing and not even really making a big deal about it whenever you would mention it in the show was just like... I don't know, it just made it very accessible.

Lou:
That's really nice to hear. That makes me feel so good. Because I feel like that's the intention of the work. So to hear that is just like "awww yeah."

Bronte:
And to also hear your intention for Lou Wall's Drag Race. that as well. I could feel that in the audience as well. The people just being so held by the five of you on stage. Especially in that being a live experience, like you could feel the entire audience just being there with you guys and taking that journey with you... Of quite a serious thing that society as a whole needs to really delve into and look at a bit deeper, but in a light way that made it very accessible and very normal, normalised for people experiencing that.

Lou:
I think there is just like so much power in comedy that is often passed off by older generations. But like, you know, as a Millennial and like in GenZ as well, it's just like comedy is everything. It's one of my main tools that I use to like get through each day. And it's like I can have the most horrific depression and still be the funniest person I know. I just think that that dichotomy exists and it should be celebrated. And sometimes it's a coping mechanism and it is used to you know, to guard or to suppress something. But I'm like, "nah, it's fucking important." And like also it's so relatable. And if that's a way that you can connect, then why not use it.? Like I think it's just such a great channel. And we've seen that like, the Nannette effect kind of seeping into a lot of people's shows. And it's working because it's like, comedy and tragedy, baby. They're so linked.

Bronte:
Yes, absolutely. It's also how a lot of people deal with tragedy is they bring joy into it and they bring laughter into it. Like, you know, as a very random example, but when someone passes away, you remember the beautiful things about them and the joyful things and the fun and light experiences that you had together.

Lou:
But also sometimes like comedy is grotesque. Like my mum and myself, at funerals, we laugh. And it's the most terrible thing because everyone is like, what the fuck is happening? But it's just like this bodily experience that... Everything is telling you not to laugh. But all I can do is laugh. And I just find them the most... It's just...

Bronte:
It's a release.

Lou:
It's a complete release. I'm like, "oh, yeah, like comedy is still there for me, like with everything." And it's just, it's catharsis in a way.

Bronte:
Do you feel like you've made pretty specific decisions to kind of get to where you are now?

Lou:
That's an interesting question. I think I'm the least specific person ever, but I also think I just have a lot of determination. I kind of... Like I got to the end of VCA and all I wanted to be was Cate Blanchett, you know, classic, everyone wants it. And I was just like, "this is me. Like, I just want to be in mainstage stuff." And I just didn't get, like a lot of people, I just didn't get any auditions or any kind of bite or anything. So I was like, "I'm going to make my own Cate Blanchett." And so I just kind of started making work and I made Dingo. And then I just kept going because I didn't see the roles that I wanted. And so I was like, "all right, well, I'll make it." It just kind of snowballed from there. And I think with everything I do, I just have to... I have to be invested in the content, I think. That's like my main thing. I think a lot of people think that I've been in a lot of stuff, but I definitely haven't. I've just made a lot of my own shit. You know, and people always tell me, they're like, "oh, you're so busy." But I'm like, this is just my... It's only because I'm just like making my own shit all the time, you know. And like, still this is my fifth year out. I'm still just like making my own shit, funding my own shows, I'm still having a team of three people and me, very minimal and stuff. Yeah. It's driven by a lack of roles that I want to play and also a intrinsic desire to be famous.

Bronte:
I feel like it's working for you. Don't you have like a crew of very dedicated followers?

Lou:
They're lovely Yeah, it feels weird to talk about this. Yeah, people come and see my shows and I love them probably more than they love me. I'm the one messaging them on Instagram, like, "hey, whats up?"

Bronte:
I love that. So you fund all of your work? That's great.

Lou:
It's mainly because I just don't have the skills to do grants. They're hard.

Bronte:
Oh, my God, it's so hard. It's so hard.

Lou:
I got my first grant last year, I think. And I have been applying for a bunch of scholarships and all that stuff. But like people who do grant writing, they are smart humans.

Bronte:
Oh my God. And they do it consistently and constantly. So you have a side hustle? Yeah. You a hospo gal. Hospo guy.

Lou:
Well, I was a hospo gal. Hospo person. Until last year and then in the pandemic I was a cleaner. I worked for these people... I worked for a bunch of people I shall not name names. They were hoarders.

Bronte:
Have you read the Trauma Cleaner?

Lou:
No, I haven't. Everyone tells me I should read it.

Bronte:
I've got it. You can borrow it.

Lou:
OK, I think I need to get an audio book.

Bronte:
OK, you can't have it then. It's real. It's a real book.

Lou:
With real life pages. Yeah. So I just did that through lockdown. Which is this thing like, my whole year last year... There was a month and a half where I made Lousical. But my whole year last year was just, going to work, minding children and like cleaning. So like for me, on a capitalistic path, it's like, it wasn't very successful at all, you know, and like half that year I was doing fuck all and I was really upset. But people are like, "wow you made so much last year." And I'm like, "no I literally made one thing and advertised the shit out of it." Yeah, it's like that... It's like that classic arts thing where it's like. People always look busy and it's like the highlights reel and all that shit.

Bronte:
That's it. That's so it. I've been talking about this recently. It can be so hard to watch, or have certain people on your social media, because it just seems like they do so much or they do do so much because they are posting... oh my god the age of social media, lol... they're posting what they're doing constantly. And so for someone that maybe doesn't do that much at all, hello me!

Lou:
You do so much. You look to me, you look like someone who's always doing something.

Bronte:
OK. Right. So that is 100% social media. It is! It's the same as you! Last year in the lock down I did nothing. I mean, I started this project, this podcast. But it's like, you know, that's one project over a 12 month period. And it does seem like on social media that you're doing a lot and that you are constantly engaged in the creative industries and you're constantly being fulfilled. But really it's not that easy to do. And also when you have people like that that literally, constantly working, it can be really hard to kind of see that and feel like what you're doing is enough.

Lou:
Yeah, I had to completely get off it last year because it was driving me insane. So I kind of, I've been off social media since about April last year. And then I will only go on to post shit to advertise. Stuff that I have to. But I'm just like, now I'm like, "no, I own you Instagram. And when I post, I'm fucking slamming down some hot content and then I'm not there. And ya'll can do whatever you want, but I'm just... I'm in and then I'm out." Like I can't, it's too much. It was making me be like "I'm worthless." And it's just like, that's the most basic bitch problem. But it is such a problem for so many people because it's like... Social media anxiety and social media depression are a real thing.

Bronte:
They are. And it's so, it's so prevalent and it's also so new. It's like a new thing that we as a society have to deal with and understand.

Lou:
I know we talk about it like an addiction, but it's like... We talk about it like an addiction, people go off it for stints. People go cold turkey for stints. It's like, that's an addiction, like at it's base form. And like, you know, in twenty years we'll all be fucked up because we're all addicted to this one damn thing. So, yeah, I don't have a magic solve.

Bronte:
And we'll all have these really skewed perceptions of what's real life. That's what fucks with me because my anxiety kind of sits on this confusion of like what's real and what's not real. Particularly in my perceptions of other people or of myself or of a relationship or of a friendship or whatever it is. I'm like, "what's actually really happening here and what am I making up in my head? Because my anxious brain is like saying things and I can't really work out what's real." And so then you put a social media platform in front of me and someone's posting their highlight reel and I'm like, "wow, they literally have the most glamorous life and they're constantly working and they're fulfilled and they're happy and they're joyous and like, is that real? I don't know, because all I'm seeing is what's presented in front of me."

Lou:
Phoebe Waller-Bridge doesn't have any social medias. I aspire to be at a level where I don't need any socials. The dream.

Bronte:
Do you have a preference, writing, devising, acting?

Lou:
I love to do a little bit of everything. I think, I'm not a great writer, but I write all my shows, so... I don't really write them. I just make them up in my head. But I like to do a little bit of composing and a little bit of editing, a little bit of making cool pics for my posters. And like a bit of... I think I'm very, I live in a very unfocused state all the time. So I like to kind of do it all and be in control of everything. And that gives me joy. And also to be limitless in what I create. So I'm like, "this show is going to be online. This show is going to be a Drag show. This show is going to be a one person theatre show." So, yeah, a bit of everything. And just like kind of follow the whim of whatever I think is funniest.

Bronte:
I love that. There's so much freedom in that.

Lou:
Yeah. Because when you get out of... Well, for me when I got out of acting school, it was just like, "you are this type. And you will be playing this type. And you actually won't be ready till you're 32. So just like sit tight on that." I'm like, "wait a sec, I'm none of these things, I'm everything!" So yeah. I like to do it all, which can be incredibly overbearing for my collaborators.

Bronte:
Do you have a crew of collaborators that you tend to work with or do you branch out and experiment?

Lou:
I like to do both. So I always work with Jean and my really good friend James Gales, who is a phenomenal musician and composer. So I alway work with them too. And then we also always work with Rachel Lee who's an amazing lighting designer, and James Lew, who does a lot of sets, and just has a brilliant creative eye. There's some amazing artists, you know. So I just am like, I'm excited to work with them, to be honest.

Bronte:
I think there's something so invigorating to be excited. I mean, obviously. But I've definitely found if I'm a part of a project that I'm like, "I'm not excited about this," then my moods down and my acting is not good and my commitment levels just lower exponentially. But like, if you're excited about something, no matter what it's about, everything is so easy. In a way.

Lou:
I only do things that are exciting because otherwise I just get so bored. I'm like going to get bored of it anyway so it might as well be good at the start.

Bronte:
Was that something that was good about the virtual show? That you kind of put it all together, but then you didn't have to perform it every night?

Lou:
I fucking loved that. I was like, "this is a dream." It's strange, though, because I kind of haven't seen anyone until kind of January now. It felt weird...

Bronte:
There wouldn't have been any immediate feedback other than messages.

Lou:
Yeah. And I'm just the worst at replying to messages. Like THE worst. Like the queen could message me and I'd be like "leave unread."

Bronte:
You can wait Elizabeth.

Lou:
100% Lilybet can wait. Yeah, that was lovely. But it feels really strange because I kind of haven't had any conversations until now. And it was like only maybe last week when I was like, "oh, maybe I made something good." But I did love not performing because like, you know, the stage fright is real.

Bronte:
Oh my God. I feel that. It's so funny. The stage fright and also the like, how are you doing that day? Like, did you sleep well? "Nup I slept super shit. But I got to go on stage." Or like, was it opening night last night and you just had like a bottle of champagne? You got to go on stage.

Lou:
It's so shit. The way you have to like monitor yourself when you're performing. I'm like, I mean in a good way, it's lucky that no theatre ever goes for longer than two weeks.

Bronte:
Independent Theatre. Until you get into the big guns.

Lou:
Yeah. I hope I never get there. Like, I hope that at one point I would just be TV or nothing. Because sustaining myself for that long... No ma'am. I'm a roller coaster baby! Strap in!

Bronte:
It's so true. Speaking of, is there something that you struggle with?

Lou:
Oh just like everything. I struggle with perfectionism a lot. I think I was confused about what perfectionism meant for a long time. But then last year I was like, "oh, I'm not starting something because I'm scared it won't be good enough." So I just have this immense fear of failure.

Bronte:
Do you think that is a part of you and your personality or do you think that's come from being a part of this industry?

Lou:
I think it's definitely a part of me and my personality. But also it may be like enhanced by the industry. Like we're told that if you make a shit show, then you'll never work again. But that's so wrong. Like, I've made some of the... I've done some real bad stuff. Like some real boring as fuck shows. And like, I've worked again. I mean, I'm self-employed. Yeah. And so I think that is like super debilitating in a way. I think fear of failure is my worst, my biggest like crux. And for Lousical, I was supposed to do it for Comedy Fest live. And I was like two weeks out when it was cancelled from Coronavirus. But like do you think I had written that? Absolutely not. I'd written like one song. I had to do a 50 minute show. Like that's how... that's the level of stress that this fear of failure puts on me. And I will be writing to the point where I am walking on stage.

Bronte:
That's terrifying. How do you do that?

Lou:
Well, it's been like... It just has accumulated over the years.

Bronte:
I can't imagine... That's... My perfectionism would like not allow me to do that. I would have written it like months before and have it perfected before I could even go, "Yes. An audience can see this now."

Lou:
Well, I'll be working for months before, you know, like I'll be working on it full time and I'll put in so many hours. But nothing will be right until it has to be right. And that's the only possible thing that I can do because I've run out of time. Yeah. Like Lousical was the same. I actually never watched it in it's full ever, because I was like literally editing until I had to export it and that took about like 50 minutes. And then I had to compress it and then I had to upload it. And that was like in the last three hours to the date.

Bronte:
Oh my God Lou!

Lou:
But I just kind of, I'm now like... I have to turn that around and be like, "this rules. And I'm really good at that. I'm really good at working under pressure." Because if I make it into this negative thing, I will never work again. You know, I'll just drive myself up the wall. But yeah, I'm trying to get into this because now I have more, kind of, commission deadlines that... you know I can't work like that for the rest of my life. So I'm kind of trying to phase myself into just doing really bad writing every day and just getting it down.

Bronte:
That's a real thing, though. That's like so many writers will do that. They'll just have like a scribble book and just write shit.

Lou:
And usually I'll write the same word for like three pages and then I'll write some sentences at the end. But, I think it's really important that I kind of shift out of this. But, it's served me well for my early twenties. It's been fun. I think my goal is to have a show and then rewrite the show in the last week so that if something fails, I can always fall back on something.

Bronte:
That's a good goal.

Lou:
I will let you know when it doesn't work.

Bronte:
I'm really impressed that that's something that you can do. I mean, for one that you kind of were going to make Lousical the Musical in the last two weeks before Fringe.

Lou:
So dumb. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Bronte:
Did you have a concept?

Lou:
I had a concept. And I had thought about it and I had done all this work on it for so long.

Bronte:
OK. Right. You just hadn't written it.

Lou:
No. I hadn't written it and I hadn't rehearsed it. There was material, but there wasn't like material that I could perform. For Drag Race, I was in Brisbane the week before doing Brisbane Festival with Romeo, and when I was coming back on the plane on Sunday, we were opening Sunday night, and I was like, "OK, I need to write this song." And like for Lousical, that Switzerland song that's at the very end. It's like, I wrote that at 12a.m. 24 hours before it was due and I was like filming it at three a.m. in the morning. Just so dumb. I'm like why - what is - come on now.

Bronte:
Were you just in bed as soon as you uploaded it? Just for days?

Lou:
When I uploaded it, I like had a dance party. I was like "Oh yeah baby." And then, yeah I was playing Candy Crush shit on my phone for like a month. OK, like four months.

Bronte:
Do you feel like you have a healthy relationship with yourself as an actor, as a performer, a creative.

Lou:
It's like getting there. I both love myself deeply and hate myself deeply, which I think is like a pretty normal thing. Yeah, it's getting there. It's very, it's like grown over the years and I still have no idea who the fuck I am. But like I'm sure someone else out there knows, I'm just waiting for them to come up and tell me. I'm very much like the kind of person that's like every year I'm like, "wow, I have grown so much this year. I can't believe who I was last year." But like, it will just keep repeating. And so, yeah, I don't know. I feel like there's a lot of pressure for people to love yourself and be really like at one with yourself and stuff. But it's like, you know what, it's really hard to stand up on a stage and have people give you instant feedback and then receive that level of personal criticism. And this industry is not really designed... It's designed for people who are androids, you know? Like if you want to succeed in this industry, you have to not give a fuck about anyone. And that's like super hard. Yeah. I think it's fine to be in a shit place. As long as you're like working on it.

Bronte:
Yeah. And you have a support network and ways to get out of a hole if you're in one. Yeah. That immediate response and that immediate feedback of like, you've either done really well or no one's vibed with it... It can be really, really rough.

Lou:
100% And like dealing with the jealousy and stuff as well is just like... It's impossible. It's like in what world would you be compared to your peers at that level? Auditioning is like, if you're in the corporate world, it's like going for a job every fucking month, like a new job. And then losing that job and then going for another job. It's such a strange industry.

Bronte:
And such a hard thing to deal with mentally. It's why so many people in the arts have mental health issues because, it's such a fucked thing. It's just a fucked thing to be constantly evaluated. How do you feel like you keep your creative practise sustainable?

Lou:
I'm the least sustainable person ever. It is not good. I have no advice on this front. I will go from like working every day, like 14 hours a day for a month, to lying in my bed and not moving. I'm just not good at it at all. But one day I will learn. I think it's important to distance yourself from the work. Not that I can do that. But I've heard it's important. I don't know. I honestly have no idea. I think for me, sustainability is about... It's hard to talk about because I feel like I've been through many periods of burnout, which is obviously not very healthy. But I think sustainability is about constantly feeling yourself with stuff that makes you excited. As long as you've still got that, then I think you'll prevail no matter what. For me, I guess I just... I listen, watch, read stuff that I am genuinely interested in and I try not to let other people decide that for me. And I make what I want. And I think that's what keeps it sustainable for me. Because for me, I'm always interested in the show that I'm making. Like I'm writing a musical at the moment about flat earthers. And I'm like, for me this is the dumbest, most interesting thing in the world, like dancing, jazz hands, flat earther people. I think it's really important to find what you're deeply curious about and just like go ham on that. And then when you're bored of it, throw it out and find something else. Terrible answer.

Bronte:
No I love it. I love actually really like it. I think I can get caught up on things too much and get sucked in and like not be able to let it go and just move on to the next thing. I get very stuck and focussed.

Lou:
I think as well when you do acting school, they tell you what you should be interested in. And like for me, there was a while where I liked Shakespeare, but now I'm just like... I find it so boring and I don't understand it. And it doesn't make me happy. Like I'd way rather see a pop music concert. So, like, that's where I'm going to do, you know what I mean! So I think it's about like crafting your experience to like... I always forget as an artist, the people who see art recreationally only see what they want. You fall into this rut as an artist where you're like, "oh, I have to see all these shows because, like, I might want to work with this company one day or I need to see this because there's a really hot actor in it." Like that kind of thing. But it's like, actually everyday people if they don't want to go to the opera, they don't go to the opera. If they want to go see Troy Sivan at the forum, that's where they're going to go. And so I think that's super important as an artist as well to make sure your love of your art is still like implicit and the most... It's like the core of your being.

Bronte:
What's the thing that you're most proud of that you've done in your creative career?

Lou:
This happens after every show, but after every show, I'm like, "wow, that was so good. Well done me. I'm the best."

Bronte:
Yes! You have to rate yourself. You worked fucking hard!

Lou:
And then I like, eventually I hate it. But like, you know, I think there is beautiful grace period where I'm like, "hell yeah." I think a lot of people lie and self deprecate their work and stuff. But it's like, you know, everyone has that thing where they're like, "I'm shit hot. That was so cool." I think Lousical was really cool. I think I was... I know people rag on tall poppy syndrome and that kind of stuff. But like, if I'm not lying, I genuinely think that I was like... I made really formally interesting decisions in that show and I made something that I think is original.

Bronte:
Absolutely! Have you re-watched it since it was on?

Lou:
I've had to change little bits, so I've watched little bits of it. I saw it once in full on opening night with my friends. And yeah, I actually really liked it. I think the thing about editing yourself is that, you've watched it so many times and you can choose the really hot version of yourself. Whereas if you're watching yourself in a TV show that you've been in, you have no control over that edit. You often don't know even what you look like on camera because you've just like gone from studio onto set and you... you know you don't see the role at any point. And so it's really hard. But I think, because I'd watched myself so many fucking times. I was like, "oh yeah, go me."

Bronte:
This is just for me. How was working on Wrath? Because that was something... You didn't write it, you were an actor in that. So that wasn't something that you had created from the ground up. How was that experience different to one of your one person theatre shows?

Lou:
It was really fun. Because all the people in it were just like Liam's WAAPA friends and they were really hot. And I was like, "hell yeah. I get to be in this!" So it's really fun. And the people he surrounds himself with are really funny.

Bronte:
Well, that's it. You jumped into another show that was absolutely hilarious. It's like you've just attracted these other funny humans in your life and like that's... The work that you do is like consistently very funny and entertaining. And I guess that's probably, I mean, you've said it a few times, like that's your goal when you create work. As long as it's entertaining and it's safe, then that's it. That's the shit.

Lou:
I think I've been lucky. And I'm always curious about, like, how they run a room and the differences and stuff. He's so laid back and I'm so highly strung. So I'm like, "all right Liam, what's the lighting design? Tell me." And he's like, "yeah, we'll make something work." And I'm just like, "no, come on." So it's like strange but it's nice not to take the driver's seat. I mean, Liam's great because he has like a really slick eye for direction and he knows exactly what he wants. I think when I was maybe a little bit younger, I always thought that that's what I wanted to do, just be an actor and have no control. But now that I have so much control over everything I do, being an actor is kind of hard for me. Because I just am so... I think I'm quite dominant in a rehearsal room because I know what I like. And I also have just like lost the skills of acting because I haven't done it so much. But I love a fucking comedy role. So like my dream role is to be the comic aside that just comes on for one number, sings their heart out and then leaves. Like that's the dream for me. Fuck the lead. That's too much work.

Bronte:
Yeah, that would be difficult, but also...

Lou:
It's necessary for character building.

Bronte:
I think so. I think, like if you're constantly in charge of a space, to have someone else take that role and for you to kind of step back, it's also probably going to help you develop in how you run spaces.

Lou:
100% which is why it's so nice working with Jean, because Jean is very much a natural leader and highly organised and I'm like... I'm maybe a born leader and Jean's like a natural leader. So I'm just like, "it's my God given right to lea,." Even though I'm chaotic and just like a fucking mess at all times. But watching someone like Jean, I'm like, "oh, yeah, that's the shit. That's how you do it."

Bronte:
Final question, what brings you joy creatively?

Lou:
My favourite thing ever to watch is just YouTube fail compilations. Funniest Home Videos, like for me, that's like the peak of entertainment.

Bronte:
People being funny without meaning to.

Lou:
100% And I also am like a sucker for stuff that's style over substance, which is I think why I love Pop so much. I'm just like "hell yeah! People looking hot! Nice lights! Smoke machines! That's the shit for me. I'm just quite basic in my tastes. I love satire. I love musicals. I'm just like real basic, just like anything with a bit of song and dance, a bit of flair, a bit gay. Love that shit. And I hate boring stuff.

Bronte:
Thank you so much for coming in and chatting with me. It's been a treat.

Lou:
It was very nice!

Bronte:
So that was my chat with Lou Wall. I had a blast. I mean, she is hilarious for one, but she's also incredibly insightful and caring and a real joy to sit in a room with for an hour. I love Lou. Next episode I will be talking to Nick Clark. Nick is an actor turned psychologist, and we'll be talking about that kind of decision of transitioning away from performing and pursuing a creative life. If anyone is kind of struggling with the choice of staying, or picking up something else, or just taking a breather and a break for a while and seeing what else is out there for you, this next episode is 100% for you. It's a really, really, really important chat. And I feel really grateful that Nick came on and had this discussion with me, because it's hard. There's a lot of stigma around changing your path in life. So it's an important one. Until then, stay creative.